The uses and abuses of science in the political arena

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:27 am

Outstanding article. Copies have been emailed to all my friends via clickability.

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:19 am

Wonderful!

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:40 am

Superb! =D>

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:00 am

Excellent piece.
I fwd: it on to many acquaintances.

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:12 am

Good article. The environment is unfortunately all too tempting to grandstanders and panic merchants.

By the way where and when did Hansen make that silly prediction about seal evel rise over a few decades?

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:31 am

Blogged.

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:38 am

JustCurious wrote:Good article. The environment is unfortunately all too tempting to grandstanders and panic merchants.

By the way where and when did Hansen make that silly prediction about seal evel rise over a few decades?

seals are rising? :P :wink:


Great article, G

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:51 am

satchmodog wrote:
JustCurious wrote:Good article. The environment is unfortunately all too tempting to grandstanders and panic merchants.

By the way where and when did Hansen make that silly prediction about seal evel rise over a few decades?

seals are rising? :P :wink:


Great article, G


Of course the seals are rising. They're being melted out of their homes. Wouldn't you rise up in those circumstances? :-P

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:17 am

satchmodog wrote:
JustCurious wrote:Good article. The environment is unfortunately all too tempting to grandstanders and panic merchants.

By the way where and when did Hansen make that silly prediction about seal evel rise over a few decades?

seals are rising? :P :wink:


Great article, G


Yeh, but yours were evel seals.

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:22 am

satchmodog wrote:seals are rising? :P :wink:


Yes indeed - the Seven Seals of the Alpaca-Lips!
Be afraid... Be vary afraid....

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:28 am

Image
Evel Seal.

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:33 am

Outstanding article, RWP! =D>

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:12 pm

JustCurious wrote:Good article. The environment is unfortunately all too tempting to grandstanders and panic merchants.

By the way where and when did Hansen make that silly prediction about sea level rise over a few decades?


http://dir.salon.com/books/int/2001/10/ ... index.html

While doing research 12 or 13 years ago, I met Jim Hansen, the scientist who in 1988 predicted the greenhouse effect before Congress. I went over to the window with him and looked out on Broadway in New York City and said, "If what you're saying about the greenhouse effect is true, is anything going to look different down there in 20 years?" He looked for a while and was quiet and didn't say anything for a couple seconds. Then he said, "Well, there will be more traffic." I, of course, didn't think he heard the question right. Then he explained, "The West Side Highway [which runs along the Hudson River] will be under water. And there will be tape across the windows across the street because of high winds. And the same birds won't be there. The trees in the median strip will change." Then he said, "There will be more police cars." Why? "Well, you know what happens to crime when the heat goes up."

...

When did he say this will happen?

Within 20 or 30 years. And remember we had this conversation in 1988 or 1989.

Does he still believe these things?

Yes, he still believes everything. I talked to him a few months ago and he said he wouldn't change anything that he said then.

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:36 pm

RWP wrote:What can we learn from this? First, the environmental movement never learns, because no one ever holds them responsible for their bogus prophesies. Ehrlich and Hansen and their cohorts have made foolish and errant predictions over and over and over again, and yet they still have an audience. Holdren, who has been wrong more consistently, about more things, than perhaps any pseudo-scientist in history, is now science adviser to President Obama.

Second: none of this is really about the planet. It’s about political power. As the years have gone by and each successive prophesy of doom has failed, the bogeyman has morphed repeatedly. First it was pollution, then overpopulation, then resource depletion. And now it’s anthropogenic global warming. But the proffered solution is always the same: give government complete control over the economy and over the most personal choices each of us can make — how many children we have, how often and how far we travel, where we live. Ask yourself; if every decade the nature of the ‘crisis’ changes, but the solution they offer is always the same, doesn’t it seem possible the ‘crises’ are manufactured — mere pretexts to impose a ‘solution’ chosen long in advance? ...

Blasphemy!
Burn the heretic! -- in a carbon neutral fashion, of course.

...


Welcome to the Dark side, RWP. =D>

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:50 pm

Great article, RWP.

Ehrlich and Hansen and their cohorts have made foolish and errant predictions over and over and over again, and yet they still have an audience. Holdren, who has been wrong more consistently, about more things, than perhaps any pseudo-scientist in history, is now science adviser to President Obama.


If guys like Ehrlich, Hansen, and Holdren are allowed to hijack the imprimatur of "science" and misuse it for a political agenda, bad things will happen, both to society in general, and also to the sciences.

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:07 pm

The link for the published article.

Feel free to have your way with the outraged liberal commenters. Jason is particularly stupid. He says Ehrlich in The Population Bomb could not have foreseen the Green Revolution. Ehrlich DISCUSSES the Green Revolution in The Population Bomb. What an ass!

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:25 pm

. "If what you're saying about the greenhouse effect is true, is anything going to look different down there in 20 years?" He looked for a while and was quiet and didn't say anything for a couple seconds. Then he said, "Well, there will be more traffic." I, of course, didn't think he heard the question right. Then he explained, "The West Side Highway [which runs along the Hudson River] will be under water. And there will be tape across the windows across the street because of high winds. And the same birds won't be there. The trees in the median strip will change." Then he said, "There will be more police cars." Why? "Well, you know what happens to crime when the heat goes up."


This dude has a vivid imagination.

That's unlike THE Dude, who just wants his carpet back.

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:34 pm

narby wrote:This dude has a vivid imagination.
That's unlike THE Dude, who just wants his carpet back.

That rug really tied the room together.

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:42 pm

RWP wrote:The link for the published article.

Feel free to have your way with the outraged liberal commenters. Jason is particularly stupid. He says Ehrlich in The Population Bomb could not have foreseen the Green Revolution. Ehrlich DISCUSSES the Green Revolution in The Population Bomb. What an ass!

There, you see? Justin is entirely correct when he states that Ehrlich, at the time of writing, could not possibly have foreseen the Green Revolution, it having already happened. Similarly, I could not possibly have foreseen the fall of the Roman Empire at the time of writing this post.

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:46 pm

Physicist wrote:
RWP wrote:The link for the published article.

Feel free to have your way with the outraged liberal commenters. Jason is particularly stupid. He says Ehrlich in The Population Bomb could not have foreseen the Green Revolution. Ehrlich DISCUSSES the Green Revolution in The Population Bomb. What an ass!

There, you see? Justin is entirely correct when he states that Ehrlich, at the time of writing, could not possibly have foreseen the Green Revolution, it having already happened. Similarly, I could not possibly have foreseen the fall of the Roman Empire at the time of writing this post.

I have heard of short-term memory loss, but this is a new low, Fezziwig.

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:48 am

RWP wrote:The link for the published article.

Feel free to have your way with the outraged liberal commenters. Jason is particularly stupid. He says Ehrlich in The Population Bomb could not have foreseen the Green Revolution. Ehrlich DISCUSSES the Green Revolution in The Population Bomb. What an ass!


As far as the commentor "Michael's" objection to the assertion that "most of us" support nuclear power, according to the latest (March, 2009) Gallup poll on that long running question:

Support for Nuclear Energy Inches Up to New High
Majority believes nuclear power plants are safe
by Jeffrey M. Jones

PRINCETON, NJ -- A majority of Americans have been supportive of the use of nuclear energy in the United States in recent years, but this year's Gallup Environment Poll finds new high levels of support, with 59% favoring its use, including 27% who strongly favor it...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/117025/suppo ... -high.aspx

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:24 am

NicknamedBob wrote:I have heard of short-term memory loss, but this is a new low, Fezziwig.

Read The Fezziwiggin' Article. Justin case.

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:43 am

I guess I'm just missing the whole "Fezziwig" tie-in
Is there a related article or link somewhere?

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:29 pm

Dickensian allusion fail?

Re: The latest RWP newspaper column!!!

Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:22 pm

Elmo Zoneball wrote:Dickensian allusion fail?

It's a bleak house where people don't recognize Dickens. (I actually prefer Little Jimmy though.)

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